Hi


I'm finding it extremely difficult to remove the exhaust pipes from the muffler.
I also noticed a crack at the base of the exhaust pipe closest to the coils.
All replies appreciated.


Cheers

They are noted for being difficult to get off. I don't have a magic solution in either sense of the word and the first time I had to remove the muffler from the K100 it took all day and several skinned knuckles along with a full can of WD40.
Is the crack in the muffler or exhaust pipe, if it's the pipe then I would finish the crack off and get the stub out later.
If you can pein oround as much of the muffler part where the pipe goes in will help.  Not too hard just enough to loosen any carbon build up, also try using carb cleaner it will disolve much of the build up.

Sometimes, the only way is to take the entire exhaust off the bike. 

This can be problematic in itself as the 8x copper nuts on the steel exhaust header studs (into the alloy engine block) can be badly corroded and seized. Unfortunately they are in a place where they get the worst of all worlds - exposed to road spray/salt/grit, dissimilar metals and regularly heated and cooled...and the softer copper nuts do round off easily!

If you do need to remove the entire exhaust, it is worth ordering yourself a set of new studs and nuts - you will need to order 4x new copper gaskets anyway.

On my first K, when the muffler blew, I could not separate the front pipes from the muffler for love nor money, no matter how hard I tried or how much the workshop manual said undo this, undo that and slide it off! I was hitting it so hard with a lump hammer, I was in danger of cracking the engine block. In the end, I had to remove the whole exhaust. Access is not easy and 6 of the 8 studs sheared in the process, despite a WD40 soaking interlude while I ordered a stud removal set off eBay. Eventually, with the exhaust off, I had to drill out 3 of the sheared studs (involved lying the bike down on a mattress so I could get the drill in under the engine block). Total PITA!! But satisfying once done. Even with the old exhaust off (I bought and fitted a complete second hand exhaust as a cheaper alternative to buying just a new muffler), I still could not separate the header pipes from the muffler - it can be that tight!

Good luck!

Guys, I have not had to do the job of removing an exhaust as yet but I used to have a tool called a nut-splitter in my toolbox and wondered if that type of device would be of use in this scenario.
It fitted around the nut like a ring spanner and then had a hard faced section like a chisel that was wound in on a screw thread to break the nut, thereby allowing it to be easily wound off. The thread could probably be cleaned up with a die and new nuts fitted.

Cheers

The problem with the exhaust nuts/studs is that there isn't a lot of space to get anything in - especially the studs on the inside. Nut splitters are excellent and are quite satisfying to use, but they need quite good access to be able to use them and I don't think you could get it in and operate it in between the exhaust pipes.

I bought the Irwin bolt extractor set - basically a hardened socket that is hammered over the end of the stud/nut and, as you attempt to unscrew, the socket cuts into the stud to grip it tightly. Unfortunately, if the stud is seized solid, it can (and does sometimes) result in shearing the stud and it is then a choice of drilling out or trying easyouts (I've never had much success with those though!). At least once the studs are removed or sheared off, the exhaust can be removed and access to remove the broken stud is much better. Obviously, if you are resorting to using bolt extractors, you need new studs and nuts for the rebuild.

You can get a small nut splitter in on all of them. I recall this subject coming up some time ago and I think it was Sidecar Paul who showed how but because of my vastly superior crappy search skills I cant find anything like it.

Thank you for your responses.
I didn't have any difficulties removing the complete exhaust unit from the engine. I was able to unscrew the nuts without any difficulties, and the studs are in very good condition.
My issue is how to remove the exhaust headers? From the muffler.

Cheers

Which model, and year?

Sorry Inge.
My bike is a 1984 k100.
I also have another question. 
The felt covering for the clutch cable. Is it inserted in the nut adjuster or the clutch lever?

Thanks

RicK G wrote:You can get a small nut splitter in on all of them. I recall this subject coming up some time ago and I think it was Sidecar Paul who showed how but because of my vastly superior crappy search skills I cant find anything like it.

Not me Rick, I'm sure it was one of the Irish eKcentrics. 

My pipes are still stuck firm so my brand new  Motad remains in pristine condition in the loft!

Paul.

gabriel wrote:The felt covering for the clutch cable. Is it inserted in the nut adjuster or the clutch lever?

The felt piece should be partly into the adjuster from the lever side.

About the exhauster....would have tried with heat (open flame) on the stubbs
on the front of the silencer.....preferably with the complete exhaust system
removed from the bike.
If heat isn't available....would have tried adding penetrating oil now and then
over a period of 2-3 days.
Don't mix the clamps, two is different from the other two.

The felt can be interested into the adjuster from the top or end furthest away from the lever.
I tried to insert the felt into the end which screws into the lever but won't fit.
I was thinking perhaps it's inserted into the lever?
I have purchased a torch and will try applying heat. Thanks

I did find mine felt piece partly into to the adjuster when changing the clutch cable.
Anyhow it's space inside the exposed female threads between the adjuster and the lever.

Inge K. wrote:

Don't mix the clamps, two is different from the other two.

Just discovered this my self....and may explain some issues I was having with the clamps.....

Any pics showing the differences Inge?

floyd wrote:Any pics showing the differences Inge?

No, I haven't.....if I remember correct it's the position to a locating tang relative to the screws that is different.

Inge K. wrote:

floyd wrote:Any pics showing the differences Inge?

No, I haven't.....if I remember correct it's the position to a locating tang relative to the screws that is different.

Cheers mate, Ill dig into it today while my exhaust is off.

For a good penetrating oil, one word - Kroil.

sidecar paul wrote:

RicK G wrote:You can get a small nut splitter in on all of them. I recall this subject coming up some time ago and I think it was Sidecar Paul who showed how but because of my vastly superior crappy search skills I cant find anything like it.

Not me Rick, I'm sure it was one of the Irish eKcentrics. 

My pipes are still stuck firm so my brand new  Motad remains in pristine condition in the loft!

Paul.

It seems a shame to leave it up in the loft-do you want to sell it?

Mike.

I'll out-bid you for it!

Sorry guys, one day I'll have to bite the bullet and attack the silencer with an angle grinder   .......and then the Motad will come out of the loft and be where it's supposed to be.

Occasionally life is easier without a sidecar. 

Paul.

sidecar paul wrote:Sorry guys, one day I'll have to bite the bullet and attack the silencer with an angle grinder   .......and then the Motad will come out of the loft and be where it's supposed to be.

Occasionally life is easier without a sidecar. 

Paul.

Are you sure Paul? It sounds like an awful lot of work to me.

I tried applying heat but no luck.
I purchased a strap wrench....totally wrecked it... Perhaps a chain wrench???

Cheers

Gees mate you have got a tough one. If it is only carbon build up a bit of dilute nitric acid will attack the carbon but try it on the stainless first it might attack it as well but I don't think it would.
Use an artist brush and paint a small amount and let it soak into the joint. Wash the brush well or it will disappear.

The best penetrating fluid you can hope for (outperforms Kroil, which is fantastic) is 50/50 mixture of acetone and ATF. 
Brush it on, give it a day/overnight. 

Here's a link. It's all over the 'nets, pretty much. Amazing.

Hi

It's been at least a month since I first tried to remove the exhaust headers from the muffler and I am defeated..
I have tried heat, hammer, strap wrench.....no luck...
I don't know how I'm going to succeed..I noticed others have succeeded, but I haven't heard from those guys...
Any more advice for a desperate k100 owner. 
I have been working on my bike for the last two years and this is the last task before I try to start the engine.....
I don't know what to do?????
All responses appreciated..

Cheers
Gabriel

Are the pipes moving at all, like can you wriggle them around. I have seen exhaust pipes that have been crimped by the clamp and refuse to come out but not on a K.

What kind of heat have you applied? If it's a plumbers type blowlamp, it will not give enough concentrated heat. You'll need an oxy-acetylene set the get enough heat around the manifold. Heat them individually until they begin to glow a dull red, the header should move as the manifold will have expanded quite a lot. The trick is to heat the part you'd like to expand as fast as possible as too much heat transfer to the pipe will defeat the object.

That method has worked for me quite a few times on stubborn joints.

Good luck.

Have you also tried the 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF, just in case they're glued together with carbon?

Hi

I tried a mixture of ATF and nail polish remover?.? I didn't have acetone...I also used a blowtorch...it wasn't an oxyacetylene unit..
I was perhaps thinking of taking the exhaust unit to a muffler repair specialist...perhaps they can achieve what I couldn't for so long...
Should I purchase acetone and try the atf mixture?

If I were you I'd take it somewhere with oxy-acetylene and let them have a go. I'd be surprised if chemicals of any description will help you. It looks like you've given it your best shot and it's time to go some (hopefully) professional help.

As a last thought, have you tried lots of blows with a small hammer to try and break the joint. NOT big manly swings, lots of gentle taps while trying to twist the header.

I'm out of ideas-good luck.

hmm sounds like seaniis pipes ...when we changed his muffler to a zorst
this is whilst the exhaust system still attached to the bike
this seems the best way, as when removed getting purchase on the headers is extremely hard , odd angles and all slippery


wd 40 up the joints and wiggle the muffler up and down constantly for a while  ....then more wd40 overnight

a block of wood and a big hammer at the start of the muffler near the clamps finally started easing the muffler back off the pipes

it was a difficult job but not impossible

before you put the muffler back on wet and dry around the carbon build up ....perhaps even a flap wheel on a drill to grind the carbon back ?

good luck Gabriel

gabriel wrote:Should I purchase acetone and try the atf mixture?

Nail polish is acetone, so you've been there, done that.

Gabriel,

Sorry hear you are still struggling. 

From your previous post, I assume that the exhaust is off the bike and you are just trying to remove the 4 individual header pipes from the muffler. Does your exhaust have the pipe clamps on the muffler collector? There are exhausts out there that do not use this clamping arrangement. My first K had the clampless variant - my current two and my two spare exhausts (one off donor bike and one that came with Gretel) all have the clamp variant.

I had to replace the exhaust on Gretel yesterday - the muffler had been previously repaired but the repair had now rusted/burnt through and needed replacing with the spare that Stephen had provided with the bike back in August. 

Before I removed the exhaust, I loosened the pipe clamps and tried to separate the muffler from the header pipes - but nothing would budge - hence the whole exhaust had to come off. A massive thank you to Stephen - SGMayhew for his care and protection of the header studs and nuts - all came off very easily! (Phew!!)

Once the exhaust was off the bike, I set about removing the header pipes from the muffler. With the pipe clamps totally released, the pipes still would not budge - even with some hearty hammering. As Charlie mentions, with the exhaust off the bike, it is hard to hold it still. The obvious solution came to me overnight - increase leverage. With the exhaust lying on the garage floor, I inserted a steel bar in one header pipe (extension bar from ½" socket set) and another steel bar in another header pipe (handle from my trolley jack). By standing on the extension bar, I was able to stop the exhaust from turning while pulling hard up on the jack handle. With some screeching of metal, the first pipe started to move. Wiggling the jack handle up and down, soon freed up the stubborn pipe. I repeated this process for all 4 pipes. Once all pipe could be twisted fairly easily, I then bashed each pipe with my wooden mallet while continuing the back and forth twisting of the pipe with the jack handle. All pipes were successfully removed from the muffler collector - and without any damage!

Photos for clarity...







Nothing but carbon and other combustion products were acting as the glue. I didn't need to use either heat or chemicals - perhaps I was lucky, but the increased leverage definitely made a big difference.


Replacement exhaust went back on bike without any problems - new copper gaskets in header, but original studs and nuts (all undamaged). Slackened pipe clamps and gave all header pipes a bit of a wiggle before fitting - once fitted and header nuts torqued up, re-tightened the pipe clamps. Being able to move the individual header pipes actually made fitting to the engine block a little easier.

Now, I wonder where I could get someone to weld a stainless steel plate over the hole in the old muffler? Is it worth it??

Good luck with your challenge.

Dai wrote:

gabriel wrote:Should I purchase acetone and try the atf mixture?

Nail polish is acetone, so you've been there, done that.

Nail polish remover these days is ethyl acetate.
Acetone is dimethyl formaldehyde

Kaptain Holister wrote:

Dai wrote:

gabriel wrote:Should I purchase acetone and try the atf mixture?

Nail polish is acetone, so you've been there, done that.

Nail polish remover these days is ethyl acetate.
Acetone is dimethyl formaldehyde

Kaptain,
You seem to know an awful lot about chemistry. 
Is this you with your motorhome?

Hi

Thank your for your replies,  born again eccentric in particular. Your suggestions and photos have inspired me to persist.
Kaptain, I can appreciate your statement. I had my doubts but I couldn't be bothered trying to source acetone....Bunnings? As soon as I read your post I immediately went to bathroom and checked the label. It lists acetone, but at whaT concentration? 
Motorbike mike, those persons of dubious character who choose to conduct chemistry experiments in their motor homes are most likely unaware they are putting into practice a branch of chemistry referred to as Organic chemistry. I remember a book with many interesting recipes when I was attending Uni......organic chemistry can be fun if you know what you're doing.......
Anyway enough dribble from me...

Bunnings has acetone in multiple sizes. It is used as a cleaner when working with fibreglass among other things. 

If tight enough you may want to use the solvent in addition to BAE's suggestion. 

Bill

Hi

I gave it a go removing the exhaust pipes using BAE!s method and it worked...
Well, sort of, I'm down to one pipe which I have managed to break the grip, but it's very difficult finding a method to hold the muffler still whilst I LeVer the exhaust pipe...I will make another attempt tomorrow...
Thanks to everyone who replied..one again, this forum has proven itself to be a valuable resource, and it's the members who make it so.

Cheers

Excellent news!

I'm sure you'll get the last one too.

I especially followed this thread because I have both a Supertrapp and a Remus exhaust to try on mine, so I may be facing some of the same issues.

gabriel wrote:Hi

I gave it a go removing the exhaust pipes using BAE!s method and it worked...
Well, sort of, I'm down to one pipe which I have managed to break the grip, but it's very difficult finding a method to hold the muffler still whilst I LeVer the exhaust pipe...I will make another attempt tomorrow...
Thanks to everyone who replied..one again, this forum has proven itself to be a valuable resource, and it's the members who make it so.

Cheers

Great news - :D:D

For the final pipe - it might be worth cleaning off one of the header pipes that you have successfully removed (fine wet & dry paper, wire wool or wire brush in drill etc.). When it is clean, re-insert in the muffler coupler, replace and tighten the clamp. You can then use this pipe as the means of stopping the muffler turning while you lever and whack the stubborn pipe with your mallet. I know it sounds like a bit of a backward step, but having cleaned up the pipe first, you should find that it doesn't stick and present you with another problem removing it again. All being well, once the stubborn pipe is removed, all you will have to do is slacken off the pipe clamp again and a few whacks of your mallet should get the cleaned up header pipe moving and out (probably easiest if you hold the muffler firmly under your foot).

Good luck. Perseverance will win the day.