nobbylon wrote:If 5w30 was correct for this motor then surely it would be the recommended grade. This chap actually states that a heavier grade is needed by aircooled motors and to me the K is a hybrid of water and air cooled. The recommended grade for these in Western Europe is 10w40 in winter and 15/20w50 in summer. The film strength on this 30 grade better be good otherwise you wont be protecting anything if it overhears. Seeing that many K’s have 100’s of thousands of miles on them, how many more 100’s will wonder oil do and how many of us will actually use the bike for those miles? 
My RS has done 55k miles from new. If I last another 25 years doing 2k/year which is optimistic then my RS will have approx 100k on it when I’m 80! Do I really need wonder oil or to be even bothered about it?! Just throw in some 20w50 every 3-5k and free your mind of another oil saga.

As a matter of fact the film strength on the Quaker State oil is pretty good.  The film strength number of 113,377 psi at 230F(normal operating temperature)puts it in the top 10% of the oils tested.  Not only that, but at 275F(overheating temperature) the film strength only loses 3.7% of it's value down to 109,211 psi which is better than 191 of the oils when they were tested at the 230F temperature.  In other words, the Quaker State film strength when overheated is better than 191 other oils at normal operating temperature.

As the author states, the film strength is the only real spec that tells how the oil is going to prevent wear.  Viscosity is resistance to flow, and the author says that higher viscosity causes more wear at start up because the resistance to flow starves wear points farther from the pump.  Centistokes is the unit of resistance to flow.  He has posted these numbers, and strangely, the centistokes value has little relationship to SAE viscosity numbers.  The Quaker State oil has good numbers here as well(thin at start, but not overly thin at high temperature), and like the film strength, viscosity stays more uniform as temperatures rise, doing a better job of maintaining the hydraulic wedge between parts. 

If you don't have the time to read the first third of the article, just skip to the numbered articles in the last half.  The titles are pretty self explanatory, and if you skip the resume and testing methods boilerplate at the start of some of the articles you can quickly get to the meat of the article. 

I think I will be making a list of the top 25 or 30 oils with their pressure ratings and viscosity numbers.  This is mostly for my own use, but I'll post it here for anyone who may be interested.

duck wrote:

nobbylon wrote:to me the K is a hybrid of water and air cooled.

How so? K bikes are water cooled.  Period. As evidence of this they have large radiators that put off tons of heat and have no fins on the engine to dissipate heat.

You may now return to the oil thread.

It’s a ton of alloy sat out in the airstream as opposed to being under a bonnet and fully enclosed as in a car therefore it is as I described, a mix. Period. Unless of course you don’t think that being blown by the air is air cooled! You may now think about it.

I wont be making any oil lists or over thinking this discussion too much as I guarantee it will make no difference whatsoever to the life of my bike but at least I’ll be putting in grades based on the o.a.t and not the results of some research paper that wasn’t using a live k100 motor for it’s test rig!
20w50 rules! cheapest you can find!

BobT wrote:

Point-Seven-five wrote:

BobT wrote:This is getting stupid. Keep us posted, if the bike won't start because the oil is not much good then tell us. Or can you strip the engine down in 200,000 miles and let us know what the wear was like? It is oil FFS.
There is a video on youtube of a chap running an engine on chip fat, and it works.
There are stories of people never doing an oil change for 100,000 miles with no problem.
Are you expecting magic fairy dust oil that will transform your 40 year old bike into a new Ducati?

What is your problem?

None at all just laughing at those who go to extremes to find some thing this won't make any difference at all to their lives, the longevity of their bikes, or their pockets.
Everything on this thread must be correct as it is on the internet! 

Who makes the stuff you buy at the dealer?  I'm sure that's where you get your oil, isn't it?  I wonder if it's as good as the stuff i get at Walmart for a quarter of what you pay.  I have three bikes and two automobiles plus several powered machines to maintain.  I like to spend as little as possible on their maintenance without sacrificing the quality of what I'm using. 

I ride about 12,000 miles a year.  I take my bikes on solo trips to the western U.S. a couple thousand miles from home where I frequently ride in the mountains or desert a hundred or more miles from the nearest big town, in temperatures ranging from 0C to 50C.  I maintain my machines so I can concentrate on enjoying the ride, not worrying about whether or not the bike is going to break.  I would rather spend my money on these trips rather than on overpriced maintenance products.

Have a nice day.

Not sure where they get it now but BMW brand oil used to be sourced from Castrol IIRC.

nobbylon wrote:

duck wrote:

nobbylon wrote:to me the K is a hybrid of water and air cooled.

How so? K bikes are water cooled.  Period. As evidence of this they have large radiators that put off tons of heat and have no fins on the engine to dissipate heat.

You may now return to the oil thread.

It’s a ton of alloy sat out in the airstream as opposed to being under a bonnet and fully enclosed as in a car therefore it is as I described, a mix. Period. Unless of course you don’t think that being blown by the air is air cooled! You may now think about it.

So what? The use of aluminum alloy for the block is to reduce weight and because it transfers heat well TO THE COOLANT.  Heat dissipation to the air is incidental. You don't pack four cylinders into a solid block of aluminum if you're trying to use air for cooling.

duck wrote:Not sure where they get it now but BMW brand oil used to be sourced from Castrol IIRC.

BMWNA's engine oil for bikes was Spectro from the '80s and for nearly two decades, then BMWAG insisted it all come from Castrol, something about an international contract and that the cars used it. That lasted for several years and for the past six or more years it's been Shell.

As a Shell stockholder, I was using Shell Rotella in my vehicles under the impression, now dispelled, that diesel motor oils were better.  Turns out that diesel engines are designed to be easier on their oil than high output gasoline engines.  The only Shell oil listed was Rotella, and the film strength was a very disappointing 67,804psi for the 5W40 T6 full synthetic.  That is just a bit more than half as good as the Quaker State.

No idea of how the BMW oil stacks up.  None was tested.  Maybe it's very good, but I'm fairly sure it's pretty expensive as well.  I hate to think what 3 gallons of that stuff would cost me.  A conservative estimate is that I could cover 800+ miles with the money I save by not buying the official oil.

It's been three years in May since I last worked fulltime for a local dealer but back then, the fully synthetic Shell 5W40 spec'd for wet clutch bikes was pushing $13 per litre. Gasp. There was a 'classic' 20W50 that came in a retro rectangular tin and it was nearly $9 per quart. Good oil, of your choice, doesn't have to bought from ze dealer. I, like Duck, use Mobil One 15W50 FS 'car oil' from Wally World when it's on sale, for dry clutch bikes, and obtain Motorex 10W50 FS in 25 litre jugs from a wholesaler, for my K40 Wedge motor bikes with wetties.

I used to sell motorcycle-specific filters when I lived in Albuquerque in the '90s (Filterwerks). I cut a lot of oil filters open to see what the different brands are made of. As a result I'm not afraid of K&N or cheapy HiFlo. Their guts are more than adequate for the job and I don't wish to spend upwards of $28 on the OEM version. In my OZ RS I use a car oil filter obtained from a local parts purveyor if I don't have a specific spare or two brought back from Amerika.

TWB, I have watched a number of vids on YouTube where people cut up oil filters.  Seems like Wix is a good brand, and they label for a number of resellers.  Locally, Carquest is my source for them.  The better model goes for just under $8 with my veterans discount.  The virtually identical cheaper model is about $5.

Most filters are up to the job, I guess it's just a question of what is easiest to get.  Only one I would avoid is the Fram.  They may work, but the innards look like junk in those filters.

Two Wheels Better wrote:It's been three years in May since I last worked fulltime for a local dealer but back then, the fully synthetic Shell 5W40 spec'd for wet clutch bikes was pushing $13 per litre. Gasp. There was a 'classic' 20W50 that came in a retro rectangular tin and it was nearly $9 per quart. Good oil, of your choice, doesn't have to bought from ze dealer. I, like Duck, use Mobil One 15W50 FS 'car oil' from Wally World when it's on sale, for dry clutch bikes, and obtain Motorex 10W50 FS in 25 litre jugs from a wholesaler, for my K40 Wedge motor bikes with wetties.

I used to sell motorcycle-specific filters when I lived in Albuquerque in the '90s (Filterwerks). I cut a lot of oil filters open to see what the different brands are made of. As a result I'm not afraid of K&N or cheapy HiFlo. Their guts are more than adequate for the job and I don't wish to spend upwards of $28 on the OEM version. In my OZ RS I use a car oil filter obtained from a local parts purveyor if I don't have a specific spare or two brought back from Amerika.

The K filter is same as many cars and BMW cars, all it has extra is the O ring for the cover.

If your local parts haus has access to the Fram PH6063, the listed filter for K & Oilhead, it is made in the same factory as the OEM and arrives in North America in a white, unlabeled box. Allied Signal, Fram's distributor, repackage them in the familiar orange and black. This is not the same oil filter part number or lack of quality as typical Fram car filters. I know the importer from the east coast.

From some oil filter destruction videos I've watched the regular Fram filters are pretty crappy but Fram's higher end filters are a lot better.  However, all of their upper end ones seem to have that rubber spin on grip stuff on the end and I'm not sure how well that would hold up submerged in hot oil as in a K.

I use Bosch 72161 oil filters and none of my bikes have exploded yet.

duck wrote:

nobbylon wrote:

duck wrote:

How so? K bikes are water cooled.  Period. As evidence of this they have large radiators that put off tons of heat and have no fins on the engine to dissipate heat.

You may now return to the oil thread.

It’s a ton of alloy sat out in the airstream as opposed to being under a bonnet and fully enclosed as in a car therefore it is as I described, a mix. Period. Unless of course you don’t think that being blown by the air is air cooled! You may now think about it.

So what? The use of aluminum alloy for the block is to reduce weight and because it transfers heat well TO THE COOLANT.  Heat dissipation to the air is incidental. You don't pack four cylinders into a solid block of aluminum if you're trying to use air for cooling.

Heat dissipation to the air is NOT incidental, it’s by design. The oil pan is ribbed for a reason and not just extra sensitivity  helping to keep the oil cooler which in turn also cools the engine block. The oil is as much about cooling as it is about lubricating.
On a 16v K try blocking up the belly pan grill and see how quickly it overheats. To label the K as watercooled is not the full story at all.

Water cooled cars and bikes also get help from air cooling,  but I think we're splitting hairs here. 

Blocking the radiator grille of a water cooled car or bike will cause overheating. Car engine's are not fully enclosed,  they get help from vents and the underside. The sump on cars get help from the air too,  some car sumps have cooling ribs too. 

Bricks work well faired or unfaired.

The prototype K100 was built around a Peugeot CAR motor.  Is that a cooling "hybrid" motor too?

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:The K filter is same as many cars and BMW cars, all it has extra is the O ring for the cover.

Agreed, a lot of oil filters which dimensionally fit a K also fit many cars, boats & etc. However, the BMW OEM number is for motorcycles only. As well, the oil filter 'kit' BMW sell is a different part number only because of the K specific o-ring and crush washer. One can buy the 11 42 1 460 845 oil filter separately. Here is a direct, non-exhaustive cross reference to the original equipment part number above.

• OEM replacement oil filters
  
  
• [url=https://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/BMW/11 42 1 460 697]BMW 11 42 1 460 697[/url]
  
  
• [url=https://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/BMW/11 42 1 460 858]BMW 11 42 1 460 858[/url]
  
  
• [url=https://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/BMW/11 42 2 325 751]BMW 11 42 2 325 751[/url]
  
  
• Bosch 72161
  
  
• Champion PH7025
  
  
• EMGO 10-26720
  
  
• Fram PH6063
  
  
• K & N KN-163
  
  
• LUBER-FINER PH2835
  
  
• LUBER-FINER PH7025
  
  
• MAHLE OC91
  
  
• Purolator ML16825
  
  
• STP PH7025
  
  
• WARNER PH7025
  
  
• Wix 57936
  
  
  

duck wrote:The prototype K100 was built around a Peugeot CAR motor.  Is that a cooling "hybrid" motor too?

No it was not, that is a myth. They used a Peugeot car motor to prove the concept as it was the only production car engine designed to work almost on its side. When it worked they used a BMW designed engine. The only thing that it has in common with a Peugeot engine is the number of cylinders 
All engines are air cooled, the air cools the water that flows around the engine.

A radiator is not part of an engine.

The prototype K100 was built with a Peugeot 104 motor.  That is not a myth.

At least difference of opinion will still be here.

Carquest 85348

Made by Wix with 20 micron filter element for dino or synthetic oil.  Spring operated bypass valve.  Readily available at Carquest and Advanced Auto Parts for $7.59.

I see this oil thread has gone the way of most oil threads and turned into a total shitfight.

This is why oil threads are just about a waste of time.

Al

Well if they just able to see sense and use the oil I use then these shit fights wouldn't happen.

In 1960s when i started racing M/Cs The oil of choice was CASTROL R  Veggy for all things fast.
for everything else DUCKHAMS green slime did the job.
Fast forward to 2000,the K, A COUPLE OF ZZRs and others in our group. During  a working visit to 
FUCHS OILS (yamaha Racing used this company )i enquired  of them,best oils for the bikes and why?? ANSWER as follows.
Racing engines Hand built for the race,sustained high revs and temperature require special oils ie
synthetics,Mass production including the K STANDARD MINERAL OIL,is more than adequate.
Change them over and BANG engine Failure.Greater minds than mine had spoken and saved a 
tight Yorkshire bloke money .Many miles and bikes later and never a problem ,Your 4 senses 
will tell you all you need about the oil in the bike SIGHT SMELL TOUCH ,and yes that old favorite 
COMMON Sense ,The mighty K is as all watercooled mobile engines are assisted by airflow to aid cooling.Not a Lot but enough to make a difference 

Two Wheels Better wrote:
At least difference of opinion will still be here.

I recognize those guys from a Season 2 episode of Nick Wallis's Caught On Camera. Isn't that the southwest wall of the Cheshire Cathedral?