new case is fine stan
heres what it looks like ...erm a few months ago now ....these things take time for this silly old bugga mate

but luckily I had a contribution from alby ...I think this is the case that broke gears on the areluen trip , pulling the trailer up a pretty steep hill out of the valley ...or just before anyhow

before



after   with just a little bit to clean off

spline to come out , and the reason for the work






spline I have on hand  and will go back in ...with a new clutch plate

Keep at it Charlie. Have you kept a list of the parts you have replaced?

have a list of sorts stan
mainly bearings and seals

need to add a roll pin 3 x 6mm for the selector shaft
and the replacement pivot shaft for the clutch arm (from motobins )


Gearbox list

Bearings 

12749-LM12710 x1
11949-LM11910 x1
6303 x2
6204 x1
6205 x1

NEEDLE CAGE	27X33X17
?	2nd gear ?

Needle  sleeve
12x8x10 mm    -x2

seals
output shaft
25X40X7

input shaft
9x15x4    thrust rod
22X35X7    shaft

gear selector drum rear seal
10X18X6

gear lever shaft
16x24x6  (or 6.5)

Extras

roll pin  3 x 6 mm
clutch arm shaft
Part No.31847
BMW Part No.
23 13 1 451 124

Boot
Part No.31735
BMW Part No.
23 13 1 338 731

Clutch friction plate
Part No.30740

Clutch return spring
Part No.31831
BMW Part No.
23 13 1 241 849

gave old gerty a present today

removed the cracked oil sight glass and installed a new one





far easier to see the level

also changed out the rear disk

for a solid one ...rather than the slotted type



this disk was quite corroded and had been sitting for a long long time ...with pitting evident where the pads had bound to the disk surface ....some clean up was necessary....and still more to do ...but ill let the sintered pads do their work on that surface for a short time  ...after resurfacing the pads back to a level profile

on the old disk the sintered pads had gouged their way through the disk with some ferocity ....all very good stopping power ...but the cost of a disk is quite expensive



I think I'm going back to the organics from now on ...

charlie99 wrote:I think I'm going back to the organics from now on ...

Nice work Charlie.

It'll be interesting to see what difference "organic" pads make - both in terms of disc wear rate, pad wear rate and braking efficiency. Loss of a little braking efficiency on the rear is perhaps not such a bad thing as it is very easy to lock up the back wheel without trying too hard (even when ABS is fitted - I call those over zealous braking moments "checking that the ABS is working")

I have always used sintered pads front & rear and haven't noticed any excessive disc wear, but perhaps using different flavour pads on the rear could make the disc last even longer. 

I guess it is all an balance of investment. Pads are cheap, discs (esp. ABS ones) are very expensive, but failing to stop when you need to...well that could be a completely different cost altogether!

Quick supplementary question...did you notice if the old pads were worn evenly? The last rear set I recently took off Gretel showed that the right hand pad was significantly more worn than the left hand one (almost down to the metal). I took the calliper off, bunged it in an ultrasonic bath to give it a deep clean and replaced all seals etc. I will check how the pads are wearing in a few thousand more miles to see if the deep clean & seals have made any difference. Shiny new micrometer at the standby...

well the pads had worn to the marks that you see .... with significant deformation in the pads surface to match
I seem to recall that there was a move away from the slotted type on the rear for the solid disk types .....possibly because of this exact reason ..
I'm guessing here but the slots carry the swarf of the pads-disks  within the slots sweep range  on application ...just because of the way the system of slots is designed ...perhaps there is some expansion-distortion  of the metal in this area under load ?.

I did have a solid disk on the rear before the last change (reasoning being as it was getting quite thin ...but just a use thing, I guess ...)  you might remember ..(earlier in this long adventure) that one of the pads was slightly thinner than the other  ...but equally no real deformation was noted in the pad surface  
fortunately I had some spares ...(which were actually too big to fit the calliper ) after a bit of grinding to the backing plate ..they fitted in nicely

but at this clean up and resurfacing of the pads  they appeared to have quite an equal wear  ( in thickness ) although some divots were ground out (removal of the high spots ) to return to a flat surface


yeah, I hope that the solid disk will give a much longer service interval this time around. 

cheers for the comments paul ..im sure that perhaps someone following will gain some feedback by the noticed wear patterns experienced by others

Thanks Charlie - a very useful update. 

I'll keep a close eye on my rear pads and see if I have fixed the uneven wear rate. The front ones seem to wear more evenly, but are used for the majority of the braking, so probably get worked harder/more regularly than the rear. I put the heavy wear on one of the rear pads down to the calliper possibly sticking on one side and keeping that pad in partial contact with the disc - hence the strip down, deep clean and new seals. Certainly this would account for accelerated wear.

a bit of an achievement in light balance ...at last

wish I had an slr ... but heres the result ...to my eye  looks better than washed out light pictures that all the smart phones seem to get as standard

above Byron bay at the lookout ... such a great place to visit

Ol' Gerty's looking good, Chazza. Kudos to you for the attention to detail and for keeping her running strong and proud. That's odo is some measure of success!

I love that view from the lookout near Byron... Haven't they changed the Pacific Highway there, made tunnels and such to open up that restrictive curve where they had you slow down to 60 km/h? I hope it hasn't wrecked the view and the ability of hangliders to soar from that point into the valley below.

balina to tweed almost 110 all the way (except for the merge after Byron - near the airfield ) and straight through that hill

the old road still enjoys a healthy traffic flow ...

We'll have to rip through there in a month's time, silver RT and red RS on a springtime day run to no place in particular. Maybe RickG could join us, other Brissie riders, Dave too, and let's drag Blakey out from his Sunshine Coast slumber.

another kilometre conundrum achieved

and Gerty just keeps on going . good one Charlie .

after a wet ground fall over event

...poor old gerty is ready for yet another fairing rebuild ...blast

some work to do

 





looking for an inner liner of the fairing ...the bit that holds the instruments ...and retains the pocket lids ...if any body has one in reasonable condition

Poor old Gerty - so sorry to see this damage Charlie - absolutely tragic after all the love and work you put into her restoration and had her looking so good.

When my Gretel had a car induced lie down in a car park recently, I was extremely lucky that, aside a few paint chips and scuff marks, only the front brake lever was damaged and the mirror just popped off with out breaking. I guess Gerty must have met with something else on the way down like a rock or a kerb stone to concentrate the damage.

Good luck with the repairs.

thanks mate ...

yeah a mud event with the k1100 centre stand digging in right hand side too deep ...found her  nose down in the soft soil ..sooo disappointing

hey its all a learning experience ...

After all that work, that is definately not funny.

thought I had a good candidate , but located a widening split ...bugga

it will go on , but just for a while till I can find something better

so I did a dirty and rough fibreglass patch job



added some primer , colour and clear coat







itll do for now ..pity though

nearly there , not too bad I guess to get me around for a while

No doubt about you Charlie... up and running again... well done.

just about done for today , now its a wee bit cooler out there

Back luck about the fall...but great work to get yourself up-and-running again!

Well done!

need to go for a ride , so rebuilding broken bits  so I can ride the old girl

so going back together , its so hot will take a break and continue later










might even get a chance to wash the old girl  , lots of scum, over everything still

Charlie you have had a SOS from England. Your skills are needed by Paul.

poor paul ..sad event indeed stan ...yeah I recon I could fix it in a week or so ...there should be a few parts laying around old blighty that should be easy to get for a steal ... don't know how the steering head would be though, if the forks bent under , but it didn't look too bad to me  mostly cosmetic ? but the sudden stop is always a concern

charlie99 wrote:poor paul ..sad event indeed stan ...yeah I recon I could fix it in a week or so ...there should be a few parts laying around old blighty that should be easy to get for a steal ... don't know how the steering head would be though, if the forks bent under , but it didn't look too bad to me  mostly cosmetic ? but the sudden stop is always a concern

Yeah, definitely could use your skills Charlie and no chance of you complaining it's too hot up here! I've got most spare parts for the front end already, but it will be a major rebuild. Forks definitely bent, so triple clamp and steering head will be suspect - but I've still got those on my donor bike, so will need to do some breaking first (when I can drive to the lock up where the donor bike is stored). Worried about the oil spilled on the road though - hope I haven't broken the sump, pump or anything more serious. Haven't had the chance to look in daylight yet. I'll soon know if there is puddle of oil under Gretel in the garage. Worst comes to the worst, I've got the donor bike engine...

Could be a good project - standby for a new resto post.

cheers paul

glad your in relatively good spirits ol mate  but ill bet your sore in places that we forget that we had

lets hope to the damage being relatively minor and the spares bike will find most of the things that's needed

will be watching your recovery and restoration with keen interest

recently had a bit of a scare with poor idling on old gerty
'the motor would hesitate for a cycle and defiantly sounded like the cam chain was doing hiccups during the event
very perturbing indeed ...I was thinking that old 84 motor would be swapped in pretty soon

the issue was not apparent above 2000 revs and on the highway ...but worrying with the many stop lights during my recent travelling for work ( car out of action for a broken cv joint making heaps of concerning grinding noises )

so thought about the likely suspects

plugs , plug leads , coils. , fuel pump (possibly) ,hall effect sensor, was one touching the reluctor disk?

and lastly the cam chain tensioner .

anyhow,  I had to start somewhere ..quick visual inspection  produces a missing vacuume spigot bung


hmm this would not be enough by itself to produce the effects that I was experiencing
so a bit deeper

plug leads measured , no 4 was showing a very erratic continuity test ...ok  so lets replace them all as there were a couple still left from finding the plugs without ferrules on top of the plugs as I bought the bike , some 6 years ago now .
I had attempted to clean up the corrosion from the arcing events , and successful for a good while I guess .

on closer inspection of the ferrules  2 were pretty corroded and needed replacing to start with


newer plugs installed and new leads throughout

i inspected and cleaned the ignition coils ...looking great actually ,,no cracks and measure exactly as I found them 6 years ago at 10.2 k each



before and after



now here the thing ...take a look at these vacuume blind caps ...take note of the brand and what has happened for me in just 2 years
I guess these after market items dont like uv or petro chemicals as they are all cracked and leaking

  

thanks to Alby and Nikki,  they arrived about lunchtime Saturday with a bag of goodies , for the cam chain inspection and replacement , guides etc and what I suspect as a broken camchain tensioner ...and the carbtune tool

so far  the work , whilst really hot has produced some excellent results with the ignition timing being spot on as how it should be ...the oldgirl hasn't missed a beat since replacing all the components ...and a general cleanup of those areas .
I took gerty to a parking lot and did some tb syncing...with great results

the carbtune showed what I had tuned by ear ...(maybe misadjusted at some time since ...but I got 3 out of 4 right )



and not long after


which I think resolved some vibration at revs issues

soo good to have her sounding sweet again and ready to ride with reliability

but the camchain tensioner issue is still to be resolved ...but will be done on another post yet to come...some quite interesting things were noticed during the discussion of the slack I found in more than one camchain tensioner..it is a worry .

anyhow it never ends does it ?   wouldn't be dead for quids

and the cruze ...no noise from that beast since replacing the driveshaft completely ...such a relief to be back on the road ...with a backup at hand ...pheww !!

thanks to all the help from good friends yet again

Interesting read thanks Charlie - confirm you would opt for the air leak via the cracked vacuum stub caps if you had to pick a primary cause of the miss?

I think I have heard vacuum leaks before rawdon ...more a fluff  than an outright "not fire " on possibly 2 cylinders

(1 and 4 were particularly darker on the electrodes than the 2-3 plugs ) I put that down to burnt caps on the plugs and failing high tension lead


all in all a series of misfortunes I guess ...the near perfect storm ?....grin

thanks for the reply ..it keeps me attempting to document issues and resolutions .

cheers

All of your efforts with Gerty help the rest of us when we come across similar issues. Love to keep reading your posts and following the journey. Keep at it Charlie.

ainsjac wrote:All of your efforts with Gerty help the rest of us when we come across similar issues. Love to keep reading your posts and following the journey. Keep at it Charlie.

+1 on that Stan.
 
It would be very easy for you just to tinker away and leave the rest of us none the wiser, so really appreciate the time and effort you take Charlie to describe the symptoms, talk us through your thoughts and the excellent photos and descriptions of your fixes. 

Certainly give us, with less Knowledge and experience, the confidence and determination to follow in your footsteps.
Cheers mate.

+1

just some feedback after more than a ride round the block

smooth is the word .. forgotten power is there ...I better be careful, if I want to keep my licence eh?

Gearbox selector drum cam follower fix

 
Old Gertys  gearbox had suffered an input spline failure , stripping the spline core out of the clutch plate , with sad to say, sharks toothed appearance of the shaft spline , due to poor or flushed out lubrication I suspect .


 
The clutch plate itself was not dully worn at all other wise , as I had changed it some 50,000 ks ago (about 3.1/2years ago )
 
So the reason for the change to a “new to me” gearbox .
 
upon installation I found it very hard to select neutral
But achievable , with patience .
So this has lasted me for a while but issues are getting worse .
 
Small issues about first , second selection were always present , but after a fair while now I find it hard to get past second gear , even worse second gear jumps out of  location back to first , or close to ..perhaps back to neutral .
 
If I can get past 2^nd gear ( and I have found a way , but not always successful ) 2 times out of 10 third gear will bounce- fall back to a false neutral . once past 3^rd gear all is good , or at least third gear and up is always reliable and 5^th to 3^rd is also reliable ..
I fear on top of what I have found in gertys relatively pristine gearbox , that I may have also bent the first – second gear selector fork in the new to me box …blast . but perhaps this was an earlier event in any case ????
 
Fortunately Gerty will load up from a third gear take off , although keeping the revs low whilst taking off , I hope wont wear the friction plate too much .
 
Which has led me to investigate the phenomenon a little more closely.
 
Before I go and refurbish Getrys original gearbox with new bearings, seals and a good looking input spline , (a gift from one of our good mates Seanii ) from a few years ago





I thought to investigate the gear drum to see if I could find some issues , fortunately Getrys gearbox was always a good shifter , for want of a better word ,
Upon removal of the cover plate and first thing that can be noticed is the cam on the gear selector drum.
I  notice an interesting wear of the locator pin in the gear selector drum cam follower
Of quite a few degrees . which I imagine would have some significant effects Including the issues that I am experiencing on the replacement gearbox .
 
Its almost as if the selector pawl on the drum cannot reach the next pin  location to pull third gear into action and the cam follower arm cannot assist in locating the correct location on the gear selector drum once selected





 
 
 
 
 
 
Heres a few pics I have taken of gertys selector drum cam .
 
Notice the difference in binding in one direction to binding in the other direction ,due to movement of the pin in the keyway of the cam .
 
 
 
There is obvious movement in the pin locating the cam to the drum shaft
With both wear in the pinned section within the shaft and the pin that fits in the keyway.
By replacing the pin with a new 3mm drill bit  as a test ,there is still a fair bit of movement ,  I measure the drill at 2.97mm and the pin at 3.02 mm but there is a fair bit of rotational movement
 
The parts diagrams say that the pin is 3mm x 6mm .
I imagine it is supposed to be round and I guess hardened ?


 
The cam follower on the selector shaft has quite large lobes between the gear positions  for third , fourth and fifth gears . and a relatively low deviations first to second through the neutral position .
 
I could be hoping that this wear is more prevalent  on the “new to me” gearbox and surmise that the radial movement noticed on the cam follower pin is not allowing the cam follower to locate correctly at first ,neutral and second locations , further complicating the reach of the gear selector paul  to the grab pins on the selector drum .
 
On Gertys gearbox the locating pin itself is showing a great deal of wear , with a very squarish appearance on the cam keyway end . which needs replacing in any instance .
 
 
 
What to do ?
 
A few solutions come to mind .
1 > drill an new pin location hole to 1/8 inch dimensions and utilise the same length new pin at 1/8^th inch thickness + file out the cam key way to 1/8^th inch
 
2> drill a deeper hole, to 6mm depth at 3mm diameter and install a new 3mm x 9mm pin
 
3> drill a 6mm deep hole to 1/8^th inch diameter and install a new 1/8^th diameter pin x 9mm long  + file out the keyway in the cam
 
the third option sounds the best to me
 
which I have done with satisfying results and very little movement at all now

 




 
I guess that this fault could be the demise of a few second gear sets and the cause of some bent selector forks for many older and high kilometre gearboxes .
 
I think the find will prove interesting as I delve into the “new to me” gearbox once removed  …perhaps its been sitting for far too long and crud has built up on the cam follower roller and mechanism , as I observed on a gift gearbox (from Alby )  with some typically cruddy roller and claw- pawl mechanism parts evident .i guess the worn locating pin is also an repairable issue as its not particularly hard to clean these parts up ..but if not observed in the first place ..could this be a contributing factor ?..
 
Just food for thought
And I hope a solution to someone out there

Can you mix metric and imperial...1/8, etc in a German machine? Will it not protest?

    lol ,  yes your probably right stan

but ive got to do what makes sence to me

had a couple of wins this week , (at last )

found an output shaft seal for the gearbox , locally , for not much money

just have to find some "oilite"  sintered bushes for the pivot rod of the clutch arm at the back of the gearbox, as sidecar paul had suggested
found the listing for am 08 12 12 ....8x 12 x 12 (from blighty ) and similar listings locally , so should be available

so in a short while will be looking to install some new bearings , (haven't got a puller so may have to ask for help with this )

the hard ones will be the bevel type on the input shaft ..I guess


also found a product that i haven't used before , a wheel cleaner fluid

which just melted away the yellowing brownish (sunburnt) top coat I had applied to the wheels


they had turned quite yellowish

they look clean again ,,, whoohoo !!!!

Always enjoy checking out your photos of the 'spoiled' Gertz girl Chaz..
I've just come back from the US with two piles of Shinko tyres to try out. Each pile just under 23kg - 1 in place of my second item of checked baggage and one in place of my wife's. 
Looking fwd to learn I G from your next output shaft tear down.

so it moves along some more

this week got some bushes for the clutch arm bearings replacement

ordered mine at 8 x 12 x 12  and got 4 for $27.00 (as I have two to do , eventually )

whilst apart the pivot rod and oilite bushes were a comfortable fit

the process of removing the old cruddy needle rollers was not easy

I tried pushing them out with a lockson - ramset dynabolt  ,the idea being to expand the flange end and with pressure push them out
naaa no such luck, the outer sleave and retainer of the bearing sheered off under pressure

so resorted to some grinding with some burs I had got some time ago , and the dremel type tool

I had to cut almost all the way through the outer sleave in two places and screwdriver , break the bearing so it collapsed on itself , then grabbing one end of the now folded in outer casing of the bearing twisting it out to leave a neat ferule for the new one to press in .

that was the easy part , with a vice and an 8mm bolt about 40mm long (to guide the bush into the location )

once pressed in the bushes had closed up just a tiny bit , requiring just a touch of work to free them up to the shaft

and they were too long by at least 1.5 mm to fit into the mount under the gearbox ,

out with the cutting disk on the dremel again and cut them back flush .

at last the thing fitted up correctly , with an ever so smooth action on the shaft , instead of the (under load ) ratchety action I was experiencing on the clutch lever .

so I should recommend the 8 x 12 x 10 oilite type bushes , but its not an easy job,,, more fiddly than hard




 

just thought to update the coil cover paint work ..its been a few years since first changing colour , with many miles under the belt , high alkaline spillage of fluid- over flows from the radiator and the general grunge of riding

looks good enough to redo the airbox as well

of course waiting for the paint to harden up fully

Please supply sunglasses to people viewing these modifications... too shiny and bright.

ainsjac wrote:Please supply sunglasses to people viewing these modifications... too shiny and bright.

     (Applies to ainsjac's comment and to Charlie's work.)

lol thanks guys   ... um ... I think ?

giggle

Feeling Green (with envy) - just looking at that Gerty Gleam. 

If I didn't know better, I'd think that she was one of those bikes that spend their entire lives at home being polished and never get to go out.

Nice job Charlie.

last trip for the year on old Gerty
but I have a progressing issue developing

that being, lots of harmonic vibration coming from the engine as the revs increase , more noticeable on deceleration from 4k and higher whilst running down the road

best guess I have, is that the output shaft is suffering lots of movement , of course, could be the gearbox input shaft as well
other symptoms are at idle a  bit of noise - vibration from the motor , which lessens as the clutch is operated .. but whilst riding I can feel the vibration come in as approaching 4k and higher with the clutch operated ...

at stood still revving the engine all sounds ok ...but must get on it and do the same to feel that vibes .
the gearbox is a little dubious and could well be a bearing inside , I have all the parts to refurbish a gear box , just need to get it done

we did a retrofit of the output shaft some years ago  now , with notably a bit of movement in the dampers within the output shaft basket

a pull down will have to happen , but ill have to move house first , so this could take a while to fix .

about time for new tyres ..yet again

the old speedo gears have stripped again . and cant remember the last time the odo worked
but usually the front tyre is the clue with usually about 20,000 between changes

so I guess that puts me over 250,000 ks

I have just ordered some speedo gears from spain ...so will hopefully install them before the tyre change and keep an eye on the distance  achieved

the old  12-2014 lead acid (cheapy ) battery is past its best  and needs replacement also  as starting is becoming problematic

? 

perhaps I should invest in a gell type .. as it seems to me with the upgraded regulator  the electrolyte seems to boil off far too easily , with often found low fluid  levels noticed after a good run out with the crew ...perhaps its just a distance thing ?

more happening  but obscured by the attempt to get the red frame project build  going properly

Check these out Charlie Probably worth the try
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAND-NEW-12V-26A-PREMIUM-CRYSTAL-GEL-RAZORBACK-BATTERY/302541001674?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
or this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12v-18ah-Gel-Battery-for-ups-Solar-Power-Scooter-Jet-Ski-Golf-Buggy-Wheel-Chair/111809125413?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

heaps cheaper than any other comparable ones.

cheers Rick

good find